new look blog!

i mean its hardly anything revolutionary, just thought with december starting tomorrow, and things getting all wintery, some new colours might be nice.

hmmm... what is there...

going to a ceildh next friday (see here for a few more details)

went out for gee/ tony's birthday last thursday which was great fun - went to fuzz club at the uni and reminisced about cheap beer and student life, and had a good jump around.

also been out on pete's stag do last night - pretty amusing, but sadly no photos this time. and now off to the sunday morning brunch at jen and frans.

err... not much else to say at the mo i dont think...

i'm tired...

now... having just spent an excellent eve out on the hop. despite calls for the distillers, it was underneath the stars that send me to sleep.

SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST

Words:Trad, Tune:K.Rusby

There came a ghost to Margaret's door,

With many a grievious groan,

And aye he turled long at the pin,

But answer she gave none,

Is it my father Phillip,

Or yet my brother John,

Or yet my own dear William,

From Scotland now come home.

Thy faith and troth you'll never get,

Of me youíll never win,

Till you take me to yon churchyard,

And wed me with a ring,

Oh I do dwell in a chuchyard,

But far beyond the sea, And this is but my ghost Margaret,

That speaks now unto thee.

So she's put on her robes of green,

With a piece below the knee,

And all the live long winters night,

The sweet ghost followed she,

Is there room at your head Willie,

Or room here at your feet,

Or room here at your side Willie,

Where-in that I may sleep.

There's no room at my head Margaret,

And no room at my feet,

There's no room at my side Margaret,

My coffin is so neat,

Then up and spoke the red robin,

And up and spoke the grey,

Tis' time, tis' time my dear Margaret,

That I were gone away.

No more the ghost to Margaret came,

With many a grievious groan,

He's vanished out into the mist,

And left her there alone.

Oh stay my only true love stay,

My heart you do divide.

Pale grew her cheeks,

she closed her eyes,

Streched out her limbs and cried.

will i ever tire of this stuff?

there are so many things i wish i was. but isnt that where we're at - coming to to terms with who we are? we are who we are, not others, despite what others might have been given, we do what we can with what we have. we are who God made us.

still doesnt quite heal the longing...

please make it so.

i'm bored...

...of sitting in computer labs writing half a side of notes in 2 hours, but feeling like the student doesnt trust you to be paying attention enough to the lecturer, just in case he reminds them all that they're way behind and need to do more work and you need to write it down for them.

but... i am going to meet justin lewis (who's now a lecturer here at hallam uni in 3d graphics or something) and go to subway for lunch - its kinda becoming my (end of) weekly outing - makes me buy less junk food in the rest of the week, on the principle i can save up for the sub. might try a different sub this time.

after that, its another dull lecture on adding binary number etc and then home time - get lots of bottles washed and cleaned for tomorrow morning when i'm gonna have to bottle the wheat beer. then its out for the evening for gee/ tony's birthday at the fuzz club.

one for our american friends...

ate with martin pickles last night. and a pleasure it was too.

more distillers...

see - shes not that scary really...

more html tweaks...

have noticed recently that you cant reference the individual posts on our blog like you can on most other peoples - all the more useful as we all add that extra complicated level top the blogs that are the comments - now you really do need to spend all day at the computer to keep up with all the stuff going on...

anyway, not too sure why it wasnt working on our blogs, i put on my html hat (and nervously stroking my javascript beard which really knows nothing) and waded on in there. whilst i've not quite sorted it out (the link taking you to the bottom of the post, not the top despite my best efforts to use anchors) it does now at least open a new page with the url at the top.

in case you dont know what i'm talking about, try clicking just below here on "post" and it opens a browser with the full address so you can link to it in your own blogs and comments.

how fascinating...

ice cold coke... love actually... the office...

"ice cold coke" it was advertised on one of the many vending machines dotted around the uni - if only it were - more often than not its not cold at tall. the ones in the help yourself fridges are room temperature, and the machined ones pretty much the same but run under a cold tap for a minute. pretty useless...

but then if it actually were ice cold, it would actually be ice hard and just as undrinkable... ice cold... cold as ice.. sounds like a song from the 80's...

and as for love actually... well we went to see it. in the absence of anyone wanting to watch anything else, i ended up seeing it with bea (and jen & fran) - cant say i was particularly impressed - not only was it a who's who of british stars - all the obvious known ones, incl. a few not mentioned ones (ant & dec, martin freeman (tim from the office), parkinson) there was also the continued appearances of all the guest americans (gary oldman in the bar, denise richards, shannon elizabeth (nadia - american pie), january jones (am. pie also), claudia schiffer - it felt like an episode of friends.

someone else i've been noticing a bit recently - tim bevan - one of the producers - having just seen the man who wasnt there the previous night who he also produced, i was kinda intrigued to look this one up. off to the imdb i go, and find out he's not only produced pretty much every film of the rowan atkinson/ mr bean genre, also all the 4 weddings/ bridget jones/ etc films, but he's also been a part of all the coen brothers films too. ok, this is getting a little boring isnt it....
it was however good to see the offices' tim in it (albeit in the most pointless storyline of the whole film).

but then speaking of tim - >the office - not sure why i like it so much - its just sooooo painful. i mean get past all the political incorrectness of it all (and there's plenty of it), and theres the continued pained love story with tim and dawn - its just horrible - her looks across the office at tim.... awwww...... why wont it happen?! feel sooo sorry for dawn (who incidently is jasper carrot's daughter apparently).

ho well.... beer bottling tonight hopefully.

wardy fireball inverstigates...

have a read of this...

at last - there is someone willing and able to properly have a go at the anti-war stuff on the blogs. never thought it'd happen.


well, i mean matt p has said a few things, but for a very different approach, read mikes...

i'd probably say similar things, but i'm just getting bored and tired of bitching about things like the church etc - i just want to be a little more contented with the world i'm in.

i like sofa - i felt on the weekend, we as a cluster/ community were like one of the ships in the matrix like the nebudcadnezzar (sp?!) or logos, and whilst we had "a certain affinity for disobedience", we know we're part of the bigger picture, a larger body and we have our purpose to play in the big scheme of things....

the monday review

new week, new blogs to look thru - found a few good ones on ben a's site one on the rugby: i felt that too - i wasnt really expecting them to win, and so was quite suprised to hear they did. there was even a sense of pride in our country, but then that just makes me think about what my country is (and that's a whole other post with comments to be attatched that could get a bit messy).

i was definitaly happier that we won the rugby and not the football world cup.

i tend to find the nationist hype really irritating - each year i'm like, "oh come on - can henman just lose quickly this year so everyone can get back to normal - he's not gonna win it, we never will". and there was that prophecy that england's not gonna win any major sporting events until they turn back to God - this has of course then made me think one of the following:

1) england has turned back to God - yay!

2) rugby's not a major sporting event

3) not to believe all the prophecies you hear about

4) God's just into rugby and got bored of england losing at all the games they invented.

then there was a post about some boy in his class being excited about the bombing last week, which does scare me too, and links back to the unexplained comment about national pride and what (or i guess i mean who's) i percieve our country to be.

and there was a post about the "'emerging church'" (note all the "'s!) - if you go to the link there to the article it refers to - something someone said last thursday at mitchells (well done the mitchells!) - why are we still trying to be culturally relevant - lets just be the culture.

what else was there - the weekend of course - i'll wait till i got some photos to accompany before writing about our trip to lindisfarne/ holy island - we had a good time though.

the distillers

felt briefly like a bit of a change musically. not quite the bluegrass and folk i'm used to these days.

and another happy note

really starting to get excited about being dad.

amusingly, feel like i need to keep a lid on it, and not let myself not get too excited in case i actually get too excited. feel like i could end up that way.

who'd'a thought it?!...

on a happier note...

well, listening to kate rusby: "ten" helps a load...

heres a couple of pics to start off with...



one of martin pickles for those quizzed over a previous posting moment and for our american friends - been feeling like i've neglected them recently...

and for everyone else on the night out (or not) (there's no where my camera does not reach, apart from deep sea diving perhaps...), here's one of the photos. more to follow...

if only it could be followed to night visiting song...:

NIGHT VISITING

I must away love, no longer tarry,

This roaring tempest I have to cross

I must be guided without a stumble

Into the arms I love the best.

And when he came up to his true-love's dwelling

He's knelt down gently upon the stone

And through the window he's whispered soft

Is my true-lover within at home?

She's raised her up from off her pillow

She's raised her up from off her bed

And through the window she's whispered soft

Who's that disturbeth my own night's rest?

Wake up, wake up, love, it's your own true-love

Wake up, wake up, love, and let me in.

Oh how the wind blows and how it rains,

Oh I am wet, love, unto the skin.

She's raised her up from off her pillow

She's raised her up and let him in.

They were locked in each other's arms

Until the long night was past and o'er.

And when the long night was passed and o'er

Oh when the dawn clouds they did divide.

He's leaned down gently and kissed her soft.

He's saddled up and away did ride.

He mounted up on his horse and away did ride.

He's mounted up on his horse and away did ride.

...

grrr...

There’s something sinister going on here.

In the metro yesterday or the day before there was an article about W Bush coming to England. He was coming over obviously to a load of protest against him and his policies about the war etc. meanwhile he was saying how great it is that England is able to have free speech (even though that free speech was very much opposing him), and yet at the same time he’s asking for central London to be closed off to make it harder for protesters to disrupt things.

Whilst I'm pretty anti-antiwar at the mo – most of the antiwar stuff does my head in (read the last post on matt p’s blog from the telegraph for why), the thought going thru my head is the way outwardly these powers say they’re all for free speech, democracy, equality, human rights, etc and yet when it comes to it, they’d rather keep dissenting voices silent.

Sound similar to anything else? But then they don’t even believe in free speech, equality or democracy in the first place... so which is worse – the hypocrisy or the communist like silencing of opposing voices?

This stuff’s really really pissing me off at the mo.

Waiting for the backlash...

comments please.

i think someone might have mentioned this already, but do the comments turn our blogs into message forums?

and how do you decide wether to comment on someone elses blogs or blog it yourself. maybe both...
never one to miss an opportunity... comment relating to one of ant's posts

the two towers (extended edition) is coming

dispatched from amazon today, so should be arriving tomorrow.

how very exciting indeed!!

dang!...

i look good in bea's clothes.

even more photos!

this would of course be a photo of bea/ me at kate's gender bending drag themed birthday party - see more scary photos here

had a very good weekend in all. bea's parents came up to help us put in the skirting board and picture rail in our front room which is looking more like a living room everyday.

the other bit of news, for those who've not heard yet is that bea and i will be expected a baby sometime mid july. bea's obviously over the moon about it and i'm getting more excited by the day.

you can be sure there'll be a series of posts coming up over the coming months about how the thought of being a dad is sinking in. so far i'm already remarkably calm and cool about it all, and NOT freaking out about it (which is what i thought i'd be doing) - God has certainly been doing some impressive stuff with me over the past few months.

there's something for you all to comment on!!

more later.

photo time

so we finally now have the photos from jen & fran's wedding and our time in prague for you to have a little look at. enjoy.

just had a martin pickles moment

and very enjoyable it was to. definitely the bright spark in an otherwise very dull day up to that point. it seems he's working in hallam uni aswell, as a PA to the head of sport and leisure (or something) for the next 4 weeks, taking him up to christmas, where he'll be away from sheffield for a bit but is planning to come back afterwards and stay around in sheffield (as long as work continues). which is good news for us all i'm sure you'll agree (if you've met him). anyway, thank you martin pickles (as erika has said, simply martin is not enough) - you have brightened up my day. as did subway...mmmmmm.... just been trying to find some new jeans - all mine are getting worn through at a fast rate, and really could do with some non-blue ones. didnt go too well (all were too short, too small or too expensive), so was in need of cheering up.

subway is calling...

after yet another unbelievably dull day, sitting in computer labs killing time waiting for the lecturer to say something, (well i say after - its not over yet - still got another 2 hours this afternoon, and this 2 hour session is taking forever) trying desperately to find things on the web to occupy yourself, i'm going for a sub, and i'm past caring how expensive they are.

i want to blog about poo and hope but at the moment the following will have to do.....

hi everyone, as our blog is read in various different countries around the world i have offered the space to someone called mark - her is his post:

My name is Mark Burgess and I am club secretary for 3 of St Thomas' football
teams based in Sheffield, UK. We are christian based teams which have many
non Christians within the team and this is seen as a major form of outreach.
We are looking to organise a tour next year at Easter and wondered if anyone
could help. We are looking for beds for the lads and potentially wives and
partners (not for the lads - more the lads want to bring them along - bea), and importantly 2 or 3 teams to play against. We at this stage do
not know for definite how many people are interested but we would expect to
bring out two 11 a side teams, at least. If you can help in anyway please
feel free to email me at marktburgess@hotmail.com. We are happy to play non
church teams but it is important that there is a strong Christian ethos in
our tour either through who we would hopefully be staying with and
hopefully at least one of the teams.

i'll blog about poo some other time - but for those who are interested, the man upstairs had me meditating on how poos and the pooing process is very much like confession.

the hope thing is cool too. i promise i will break the blogging silence but things have been hectic now i'm back at work.

radikooool - more "rantings" from brad!

been through pretty much everyone blog over there on the left - the bit i got all excited about was this (no offence everyone else - i'm in yet another dull lecture with nothing to do, again. i'm pretty low on enthusiasm at the mo. i think brads post just excited me in an escapism kinda way.):

"for instance, err ... umm ... okay! how about this as an illustration - a group of tribal disciple friends gets together to create a book, and everyone contributes ideas, photos and artwork, words and whatever, and helps out, and the input from everyone sort of weaves in and out of the entire creation process. so whose book is it? everyone's - but that's hardly the point. they did it along the way, while living life together, and the book was just another way to bring everyone together.

so, that kinda sounds a lot like regular ole teamwork, doesn't it? so what makes it different? it's a lot more egalitarian and integrative. it assumes everyone is welcome to play a role, that the 'product' of working together is life itself ('hey! look at the book we did - we had a great time doin' it!) rather than the concrete object produced. the process itself is the product, and the point is construction of relationships, not consumption of what a paid leader or a team produces. and the tribal version happens much more spontaneously than getting together the 'creative arts team' to plan a book, outline the book, collaborate on the book, publish the book, promote the book. heck, it's just gittin' it on to do a book cuz that's what living life together calls for at the moment. and yet, the book produced through the tribal paradigm may end up with a ministry of its own too, but that's more a side-product than the main thing.

go figure.

...

your thoughts?"

by brad

any thoughts - you can post them on the comments bit if you like.... i'm personally well up for this sort of stuff. i'd love to see this sort of thing happen - how feasible is it? can it be done? would it be a more magazine/ fanzine, or more of an annual so to speak? who cares - would be good to do - anyone got any ideas if we can do this? neill? "this is sheffield" autumn ed.

shu

something about today has made working here just that little bit more depressing than ever - i'm guessing it was 2 incidents - first hearing "when a man loves a woman" playing in the main atrium of hallam uni - not what you'd expect to here - couldn't really hear all the words, but stood round waiting for the end of the song - it was something to do with a graduation do, probably just testing the PA system.

then i just saw somebody talking to his friends and juggling up in the cafe above the atrium, he was vaguely alterntive looking - long dyed hair etc - someone having fun, not trying to look cool all the time - its just not something you ever see here. ever. when did students start getting all this money? mobiles? i always thought students were s'posed to be poor, creative, political activist poets musicians and other arty types. or techy geeks.

not sure why seeing 2 such out of place things has made me so sad - maybe just realising how dull it is here and how much everyone is in the same fashion/ style - i mean is there anyone here who doesnt wear the same clothes as everyone else - does anyone not shop at topman/shop? this place is just sooooo boring. is there any soul to this institution, or is it all about image?

maybe i'm being too judgemental again. dont care too much at the mo. going home.

hot damn!!!

read this!! not read such a good piece of writing in ages - i would've stood up with you on that one mike - flippin' awesome!!

myers-briggs - the sequel

My Bloginality is INTP!!!

its good to do this again, and come out as what i thought i might be. i sometimes err on the F side of things, but the T is probably right. their description is pretty good, as is the one here, although not entirely right - most of their possible careers are too geeky/ too much hard work. i also love details. and i don't like working alone very much - i prefer teams, but certainly have no desire to lead. most of the others i'd go with - "Usually brilliant and ingenius"? well thats me all over.

anyway, enough of the personality tests and back to the notetaking...

this is (99%) good news....

have to say, thethingaboutit.com is hanging pretty much in the balance though.

comments please

now added to all blogs in honour of my last post.

just down there by the author and date...

everything that has a beginning... can be branded and a sequel made. not an end.

ok - so the matrix does make more sense to me, but there's still a part of me thats irritated by the unanswered questions - like mike was saying, there was so much in it that had so little relevance - the trainman, the french man, the little girl, the underage kid etc. when we were talking about it after the first screening, dave pointed out, all the loose ends is a pretty postmodern approach to film making. good point i thought. it was the first time i've been rritated by postmodernism i s'pose...

but thinking about that, so many films are left in some way open ended. the cynic would (probably rightly) say, it allows for a sequel, ie a franchise. well thats all the big things these days - franchises, branding - a starbucks in every city, a macdonalds on every corner, nike on your feet, gap on you hat. where style is more important and more valued than content - was matrix a victim of this? was it all just a very basic idea that had been spun out over 3 films, with amazing effects, but no real cohesive, tight storyline in the end to back it up, and potentially the option to make a forth film should they wish. will the aliens series ever really get closure? terminator 3 ended with the start of the whole war - no closure there either.

what about the scream trilogy? the first film i thought was an absolute masterpiece, using "the rules" of a horror-slasher movie to make a movie about itself. full of injokes, and self referencing, taking the cynical look at itself and then twisting it into something new, created out of the parts of its history and heritage (if horror movies can be said to have heritage...!). the sequel turns out to be based on the idea of a horror movies sequel. again, you think yo should've known what was going on but again theres the up to date twist on things, and then the third film, takes it all back to the world of media, it being about the court case, oj simpson style. american pie 1-3. starwars 4-6, 1-3. desperado 1-3. it seems its sequels everywhere, and branding everywhere - "from the makers of 4 weddings, notting hill and bridget jones..." comes another film with hugh grant in it. product placement is everywhere too - the italian job remade with high tech stuff and the new minis. lara croft 1 selling the motorola mobile (i think), james bond sold another mobile, matrix made the flip down nokia famous.

theres a part of me that loves figuring things out, but in some ways it seems i've met my match in postmodernism (or whatever label its given) - its not supposed to be figured out - its all a journey, with no real start or end - its more about the experience than finality. in that way, the matrix' tag line was completely wrong - everything that has a beginning has an end? there werent enough ends in revolutions, if any.

there is definitelty something in all this that helps me get God more though - there isnt always an answer to every question, that the purpose of a person or event isnt always what you think it should or could be, that to hold things in tension, you may need to pull something away from the thing it is naturally drawn to - its uncomfortable to do so, its hard work and emotionally & mentally taxing, but if we dont then we end up with a 2 dimensional view of things, lacking creativity and imagination for what a limitless God might want to do, (and at times, more to the point,) how he wants to do it, and with who.

probably more later...

intolerable cruelty

a very good film - coen brothers still at the best & funniest - quite like the big lebowski i thought - where they find their characters from i dont know, but are just so perfect for the film. bea liked it as well, and she's not a huge coen brothers fan.

prague, beers

i've said it before, but this gives you an idea of what you pay in the centre of prague, the capital of the czech republic, on a burger stand for your beers.

the 2 tall beer cans, the krusovice is amazing stuff - far far far better than anything you'll get in a yer average pub over here. the pilsner (in comparison to other czech stuff is pretty poor). coke you know - the same size - 500ml bottles - tastes a little more cinnamony over there. the water i didnt really try, but bea got into it a lot...

and how much is 35,- crowns worth? about 70p.

in the local supermarket, you could buy packs of 10 x 500ml bottles of staropramen - of a similar quailty to the krusovice - for 85,- crowns - about £1.70, working out as 17p a pint for some of the best lager you'll ever have.

how much do youy pay in our own capital for a pint of lager? £3.00ish i heard...

matrix: revoloutions - rich's thoughts

"Some random musings regarding Revolutions...

It was evident that Merovingian tried to delete the Oracle and almost suceeded. The Architect was obviously concerned about the fate of the Matrix and pointed out in Reloaded that, if he was the father, then the oracle was the mother. With that in mind, consider that the oracle said the no one could see past the choices they didn't understand. Thus, the Architect could not be sure that he would destroy Zion as he could not comprehend Neo's choice to return and save Trinity. In an act of desperation, the Architect followed the advice of the Oracle. It sort of follows the old concept that man will destroy and woman will create. The Architect in his arrogance was simply going to crush Zion. But, the Oracle saw a way for them all to benefit. The Oracle allowed Smith to take her for she knew what he'd see and how he's misinterrpret it. She also had faith that Neo would face Smith regardless of the cost. He had already made that choice, thus his reply to Smith at the end.

Although a lot of question remain, for me the film came down to the Architect and the Oracle simply using everyone in a rather over complex game of chess."

rich green

matrix: revolutions

well, i'm not sure what to make of it really. i liked it a lot more the second time i watched it, but i still think its left even more questions unanswered than it has answered. i mean there are some questions it hasnt even tried to answer, such as, what was the point in persephone and her kiss with neo in the reloaded? what was she on about in the toilet? what has that got to do with anything?

and what have they done in the last film. i'm still not sure neo is the one - so what was his purpose? why was he there? was it just to cancel out smith?

whats the conversation with the architect have to do with anything in revolutions? i mean, i've finally got my head round it, figured out everything he was getting at, but then it had nothing to do with revolutions, other than letting neo know he isnt "the one" as he realised at the very end of reloaded. so if he wasnt "the one", then what was he there for? he wasnt the fulfilling of the prophecy (as morpheus was shown also at the end of reloaded) for that reason i guess. his purpose was different. as the matrix gets away from the easily paralleled christian theology and adds more eastern yin-yang type, good and evil meeting and cancelling each other out (the final showdown of agent smith and neo), and a little note on karma being purpose.

so in someway neo did end the war and bring about peace, but he wasnt the one that was prophecied, nor the one that would go to meet the architect and make the decision of the 2 doors.

the bit i dont then get, if smith's purpose was so connected with neos (smith: "i have come to take form you what you took from me - purpose"; neo: "i wish i knew what i was meant to do"), smith lost his purpose in the first film when he was killed but didnt die, ie became a rogue program that didnt belong in the matrix, he lost his purpose (as was said by another agent on the lorry in reloaded, when a program has completed its purpose, the only thing left for it is to be deleted). so then all smith was concerned with was killing neo, that was now his purpose. when he does kill neo, he no longer has a purpose and so is deleted by the machine world, which is what freaked him out at the end of revolutions.

so i guess neo's purpose was to be there to cancel smith out. not going so far to say he was created by the matrix to deal with smith, as he came first, but then my heads saying smith was created to cancel out neo, smith being neo, but his negative, his opposite.

and a bit of an off the point point, what was trinity about? when agent smiths wanted to know why neo carried on, it wasnt love, it was because he chose to.

oh i dont know - i'm not convinced revolutions was what it could've been - so many of us came up with explanations for so much after reloaded, that they could have taken in revolutions, but they didnt seem to chose anything close, and just changed the goalposts, in a way invalidating the previous two film. maybe i'll get it the more i watch, as i have with the previous two, but i cant help feling revolutions was the final film to a different trilogy, and the proper end film has yet to be made to follow on from reloaded.

prague, landing

maybe we were just lucky to land in the czech republic....

prague, mucha

one of the things bea and i both found in prague was all the art nouveau influences around the place.

i'd heard of the term, even noticed a bit of it (including mucha) but never really saw it until being in prague, and seeing it everywhere - so many of the buildings had it on their outsides, ornate plaster castings, gold work, writing fonts - all stuff i wouldnt have seen if i werent looking for it and knowing what i was looking for.

anyway, mucha seemed to be at the centre of it all, and whilst i had seen stuff by him (even picking up a couple of postcards of his oin a 2nd hand shop a year ago or so, and seeing some of it on a bag cathers owns), i'd never really got it that much. anyway, i know beas got some stuff to say on mucha...

heres a pic of the evening star - part of a series on the stars that can be seen here- the moon, the evening star, the polestar and the morning star which are some of my favourite ones by him.

not sure what it is i like about it - in many ways its very different to the kind of stuff i'd otherwise like. ben cooper was telling me when i spotted the link with rennie macintosh stuff (which i've never liked, and still dont really), that art nouveau was far more popular in europe, and never really took off in england as it was considered too sensual for us.

so i wonder what God is wanting to show me in it.

back home

not got a lot to say right now - more later on the trip. suffice to say, we had a brilliant time, and photos will be up asap.

matrix: revolutions out tomorrow. will be seeing some of you there... (and hopefully including neill!)

pretty tired now, and unfortunately have to be up for a 9am lecture. going to bed at this unreasonably early hour...